First how do we get the 508 date?
All the Daniel dates primarily comes from Daniel 8:13.


How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation.




As we learned on that lesson the 2300 day prophecy ends in 1844.
So everything else relies on and within that timeline.


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We also learned about the 1260 year timeline in Dan 7:25, Rev 12:6, Rev 12:14, & Rev 13:5.
These all point to the end of Papal Rome (Religious Political laws).
Which Napoleon Bonaparte troops captured the Pope in 1798 occupying the Papal States.
Subtract 1798 AD from 1260 years and you get 538 AD.
Around the time of 538 AD came the Code of Justinian and the wiping out of the Arian tribes.
Which brings us into the start of Papal Rome.
So back to 508 AD. We get that from Dan 12:11 & Dan 12:12.


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• 1798 - 1290 = 508
• 1844 - 1335 = 509

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Just noticed we are one year off from the 1844 date.
Remember at first 1843 was the date for Jesus return.
It was not till later that they realized there was no 0 year.
Thus changing the 1843 to 1844 date later.
So now it looks like the 1335 timeline is off by one year.
1843 did make it on the 1850 Chart. (see chart picture with angel on it below.)

So what does the 1290 and 1335 mean to a futurist? (Dan 12:11 and Dan 12:12.)




First lets get the context of Daniel 12.




• Michael (Jesus) stands up, the Great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people. (Dan 12:1)
  Yes Michael The Archangel is Jesus. Jude 1:9
  • Michael is the Great Prince
  • No he is not an Angel, the word Archangel means Leader of the Angels
  • Great Prince! Leader Of The Angels! Unless you know someone else who fits that description?
• Time of Trouble, Such as Never Was. (Dan 12:1)
  This happens after Jesus has finished his work in the Most Holy Place.
  • The The Daniel 8 - Judgment study should help explain some of that. (More still to come on that later.)
• Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake. (Dan 12:2)
  Yes there will be an resurrection at this time.
  • Many call this the special resurrection.
• The Question Daniel is Asking:
  After all of this, is he asking about 1798 or about when it's all over?
  Daniel asks the question twice.
  • How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? - Dan 12:6
  • O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? - Dan 12:8
• Does this prophecy have a time when this will happen?
  What does Daniel 12:11 say?
  • From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up.
  • Same language as Dan 9:25 "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem".
  • We do get a starting time. But is it the same as Dan 11:31 or not?

This chart was used during the Millerite movement.
It is easier to see where they got the 508 date and also the 158 date using this chart.
In the top right corner you can see the 1335 days showing that it ends in 1843.
The top left showing the 2300 days. And the bottom middle showing the 1260 days.
All coming to an end at the same time (either 1798 or 1843).

There is no agreement on any future chart.




So I just looked for whatever I could find.




Mat 24:15 is why I lean more to the future application.




The disciples asked "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?". (Mat 24:3)




So in both Daniel and Matthew is Jesus going to answer the question with 508-1798 AD?

The pictures below are from 2 charts, one from 1843 and the other from 1850.




I'm showing both because Ellen White had comments about them. I'll show that further down.




What I'm getting at though is that all these dates are on both charts.




The date 1335 was removed off the new chart, but 1843 is still on the chart (see angel picture).




From Daniel 12 we get:

• Three different timelines: 1260, 1290, 1335.
• Three different dates: 158 BC, 508 AD, 538 AD -- (Which are built off of 1798 & 1843)
  • 1843 AD - 1335 = 508 AD
  • 1798 AD - 1290 = 508 AD
  • 1798 AD - 1260 = 538 AD

  • 508 - 666 = -158 BC. (You can click the chart above to see the 666 on that one too if you like.)

1843
1850
	As we know becaue of no zero year the 2300 day prophecy was moved from 1843 to 1844. So why is 1843 still on the chart? The only other time period to keep it there would be the 1335 prophecy found in Daniel 12:12. 1843 AD - 1335 = 508 AD

The biggest thing I think that supports the Historic view is the 1850 chart.




The biggest thing I think that supports the Futurist view is Matthew 24:15, the words of Jesus.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (Matthew­24:15-22)

Lets also see Luke's take on what Jesus said.

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (Luke­21:20-24)

And now what Ellen White had to say about this event.

The time is not far distant, when, like the early disciples, we shall be forced to seek a refuge in desolate and solitary places. As the siege of Jerusalem by the Roman armies was the signal for flight to the Judean Christians, so the assumption of power on the part of our nation in the decree enforcing the papal sabbath will be a warning to us. It will then be time to leave the large cities, preparatory to leaving the smaller ones for retired homes in secluded places among the mountains. (Ellen White - 5T 464)

But Ellen White did put some of these events in the past.

The persecution of the church did not continue throughout the entire period of the 1260 years. God in mercy to His people cut short the time of their fiery trial. In foretelling the "great tribulation" to befall the church, the Saviour said: "Except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:22. Through the influence of the Reformation the persecution was brought to an end prior to 1798. {GC 266.4}

Can the Abomination Of Desolation here have more than one application?
I'm not saying these are all the same event.
I mean that when Jesus spoke of this time he was talking about multiple events at one time.

• The Disciples asked "What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
• This was a warning to the Jews from Jesus relating the desolation found in Dan 9:26-27.
• Ellen White takes that event and relates it to the last days and the 1260 years.
• Which Abomination Of Desolation is Jesus talking about? Is there more than one application?
  Lets deal with that question in video below this section (I think all of them apply).
  • Dan 8:13 "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation"
  • 1844 - End of Desolations.
  • Dan 9:26 "The end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
  • 70 AD - Desolations against Literal Israel.
  • Dan 11:31 "shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate."
  • 508 AD - Setting up of Desolations.
  • Dan 12:11 "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up."
  • Either by 1844 - Desolations are over.
  • Or another set of Desolations at the end of time (that relate to previous ones).
  • What was Daniels question again?

The things revealed to Daniel were afterward complemented by the revelation made to John on the isle of Patmos. These two books should be carefully perused. Twice Daniel inquired, How long shall it be to the end of time? "And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?" (TM 114)

After looking at some of the dates above:
A good reason you can say Daniel 12 only points to the past is because of Daniel 8.


One Saint - "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?"
Another Saint - "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed:"


So by this passage you could say that desolations are all over by 1844.

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Disciples - What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Jesus - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel.
Daniel - O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Jesus - From the time that the abomination that maketh desolate set up.



Could there be another set of desolations after 1844?

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One of the main points of 1290, 1335 being in the past is:
No More Time Setting.
The time prophecies are all past.

• There should be time no longer. (Rev 10:6)
• Again 1844 marks the end of prophetic time. (Dan 8:13-14)

One of the main point for these being future is:


Don't ignore the warnings.
Prophetic time has passed (meaning a day for a year prophecy).
But there is still literal time prophecies yet to come.

• 1000 Years - Rev 20:2-7 (yet to come).
• 1/2hr Silence in Heaven - Rev 8:1 (yet to come).
• God spoke the day & hour of Jesus Coming. - Ellen White

  Ellen White - Early Writings.

  And as God spoke the day and the hour of Jesus' coming. and delivered the everlasting covenant to His people,
  He spoke one sentence, and then paused,
  while the words were rolling through the earth.

  - Early Writings (yet to come).

Prophetic Time Is Over
This time, which the Angel declares with a solemn oath, is not the end of this world's history, neither of probationary time, but of prophetic time, which would precede the advent of our Lord. That is, the people will not have another message upon definite time. After this period of time, reaching from 1842 to 1844, there can be no definite tracing of the prophetic time. The longest reckoning reaches to the autumn of 1844. (Ellen White - Christ Triumphant, p. 344)

The Prophetic Time Is Over

• Ellen White said "prophetic time".
• That means a day for a year prophecy has ended not literal time.
• In that statement it says "The Prophetic Time" not "A" not "Any" but "The".
• Meaning she was being specific that this was THE day for a year prophetic time.

Ellen White Statement's on time.
• Time has not been a test since 1844, and it will never again be a test.
• The Lord has shown me that the message of the third angel must go, and be proclaimed to the scattered children of the Lord, but it must not be hung on time.
• I saw that some were getting a false excitement, arising from preaching time; but the third angels message is stronger than time can be.
• I saw that this message can stand on its own foundation and needs not time to strengthen it; and that it will go in mighty power, and doits work, and will be cut short in righteousness.
• Let all our brethren and sisters beware of anyone who would set a time for the Lord to fulfill His word in regard to His coming, or in regard to any other promise He has made of special significance. "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in His own power."
• There must be no long discussions presenting new theories in regard to prophecies which God has already made plain...

Ellen White Statement's on time.
• While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the East, which took a number of days, the synagogue of Satan worshipped at the saints' feet.
• The time is not far distant, when, like the early disciples, we shall be forced to seek a refuge in desolate and solitary places. As the siege of Jerusalem by the Roman armies was the signal for flight to the Judean Christians, so the assumption of power on the part of our nation [the United States] in the decree enforcing the papal sabbath will be a warning to us. It will then be time to leave the large cities, preparatory to leaving the smaller ones for retired homes in secluded places among the mountains.
• The time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation [Daniel­12:1] is right upon us, and we are like the sleeping virgins. We are to awake and ask the Lord Jesus to place underneath us His everlasting arms, and carry us through the time of trial before us.

Ellen White's Statements on Daniel 12
Doubt you will find many statements of Daniel 12 in the past.
So I will give a couple comments on the Daily.
• ..regarding this question ["the daily"]; for I have had no instruction on the point under discussion, and I see no need for the controversy. Regarding this matter under present conditions, silence is eloquence.
• Faith was transferred from Christ, the true foundation, to the pope of Rome. EGW

  1911 GC 55 .1

  The accession of the Roman Church to power marked the beginning of the Dark Ages. As her power increased, the darkness deepened. Faith was transferred from Christ, the true foundation, to the pope of Rome. Instead of trusting in the Son of God for forgiveness of sins and for eternal salvation, the people looked to the pope, and to the priests and prelates to whom he delegated authority. They were taught that the pope was their earthly mediator and that none could approach God except through him; and, further, that he stood in the place of God to them and was therefore to be implicitly obeyed. A deviation from his requirements was sufficient cause for the severest punishment to be visited upon the bodies and souls of the offenders. Thus the minds of the people were turned away from God to fallible, erring, and cruel men, nay, more, to the prince of darkness himself, who exercised his power through them. Sin was disguised in a garb of sanctity. When the Scriptures are suppressed, and man comes to regard himself as supreme, we need look only for fraud, deception, and debasing iniquity. With the elevation of human laws and traditions was manifest the corruption that ever results from setting aside the law of God. {GC 55 .1}

• ,,,true religion would be banished from the earth. EGW

  GC 55.2

  "Those were days of peril for the church of Christ. The faithful standardbearers were few indeed. Though the truth was not left without witnesses, yet at times it seemed that error and superstition would wholly prevail, and true religion would be banished from the earth. The gospel was lost sight of, but the forms of religion were multiplied, and the people were burdened with rigorous exactions.

Ellen White's Statements on Daniel/Daniel 12
• The light that Daniel received from God was given especially for these last days. EGW

  TM 112.3

  The light that Daniel received from God was given especially for these last days. The visions he saw by the banks of the Ulai and the Hiddekel, the great rivers of Shinar, are now in process of fulfillment, and all the events foretold will soon come to pass.

• Let us read and study the twelfth chapter of Daniel. It is a warning that we shall all need to understand before the time of the end.
• Twice Daniel inquired, How long shall it be to the end of time?
• The prophecy in the eleventh of Daniel has nearly reached its complete fulfilment. Much of the history that has taken place in fulfilment of this prophecy will be repeated.
• The book of Daniel is unsealed in the revelation to John, and carries us forward to the last scenes of this earth's history.

In the Scriptures are presented truths that relate especially to our own time. To the period just prior to the appearing of the Son of man, the prophecies of Scripture point, and here their warnings and threatenings pre-eminently apply. The prophetic periods of Daniel, extending to the very eve of the great consummation, throw a flood of light upon events then to transpire. The book of Revelation is also replete with warning and instruction for the last generation. The beloved John, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, portrays the fearful and thrilling scenes connected with the close of earth's history, and presents the duties and dangers of God's people. None need remain in ignorance, none need be unprepared for the coming of the day of God. (RH September 25, 1883, par. 6)

Ellen White Endorsed The Chart:
• He has a chart pointing out every waymark on the heavenward journey, and he ought not to guess at anything
• I saw that the truth should be made plain on tables....Not a peg of it should be altered without inspiration
• I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered;
• I saw that the charts ordered by God struck the mind favorably, even without an explanation.



1843

1850

Ellen White Endorsed The Chart:
• The 1290 & 1335 were removed and are not on the new chart.
  • For the most part this is a true statement since it was removed from the corner of the page where they tried to explain the 1290 and 1335 dates and what they meant.
  • But if you look at those chart pictures above you will see that the 1290 did make it on the new chart, my problem is, if it was so important, why such small print hidden under another topic.
• If the 1290 & 1335 are set in stone (because its on the chart) than so must the 2520 & 158 right?
• The 2520 is in the the bottom corner of the page and that to me shows more importance.
• Also 158 BC (which I also disagree with) must be set in stone too right?
• Should we also believe every word of Uriah Smith - Daniel and the Revelation.
  I don't think Ellen White believed every word but yet endorsed his writings.
  • Especially should the book Daniel and the Revelation be brought before people as the very book for this time. This book contains the message which all need to read and understand.
  • They need to understand this book. It speaks of past, present, and future, laying out the path so plainly that none need err therein.
  • The light given was that Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation, Great Controversy, and Patriarchs and Prophets would make their way. They contained the very message the people must have, the special light God had given His people.
  • Everything that can be done should be done to circulate Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation. I know of no other book that can take the place of this one. It is God's helping hand.



From what I heard there are discrepancies between the Charts and Uriah Smith's book.

How should we apply this quote?


One week ago, last Sabbath, we had a very interesting meeting. Brother Hewit from Dead River was there.
We told him of some of his errors in the past, that the 1335 days were ended and numerous errors of his. It had but little effect. His darkness was felt upon the meeting and it dragged.




Those who believe this is past would say...





Ellen White is stating that the 1335 days were ended, not that this was one of Hewit's errors.




Ellen White believed it was past.

How should we apply this quote?


One week ago, last Sabbath, we had a very interesting meeting. Brother Hewit from Dead River was there.
We told him of some of his errors in the past, that the 1335 days were ended and numerous errors of his. It had but little effect. His darkness was felt upon the meeting and it dragged.




Those who believe this is future would say...



We can clearly see here that one of Brother Hewit errors whas that he put the 1335 days in the past.
Ellen White believed it was future.

Other Reasons
• There are 7 (meaning it's special / complete) references of the 1260 day prophecy.
  (Dan 7:25, Dan 12:7, Rev 11:2, Rev 11:3, Rev 12:6, Rev 12:14, Rev 13:5.)

Other Reasons
• Counting how many times something is shown to prove a point sounds like a bit of a stretch to me.
  

Final Comments
From this side, I wholly agree that we should not give any date for Christ's Return.
Although I do believe that God will make known when he will come again like Ellen White said.

Ellen White - Early Writings.

And as God spoke the day and the hour of Jesus' coming. and delivered the everlasting covenant to His people,
He spoke one sentence, and then paused,
while the words were rolling through the earth.

Final Comments
From this side, I still can't just put these time periods in the past.
I believe "THE Prophetic Time" ended but Daniel 12 has some kind of a literal future fulfillment.

Ellen White - TM 112.3

The light that Daniel received from God was given especially for these last days. The visions he saw by the banks of the Ulai and the Hiddekel, the great rivers of Shinar, are now in process of fulfillment, and all the events foretold will soon come to pass.