So which is it, do the Jews need to become more like the Christians or do the Christians need to become more like the Jews?
Or maybe there is some middle ground somewhere?
Before I get into the many questions on the 144,000 I guess it is best to know where I'm coming from.
There is a big debate amongst many Christians in general on whether the 144,000 are made up of Christians or Jews.
We better go over that first so you know where I'm coming from through the rest of my studies.
Who Is Israel Today?
Rom 9:6-8 " Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. "
My position is that Israel today are the Christians and that the promises made to Israel in the Old Testament apply to the Christians today.
Yes there are many scriptures that were prophecies for the literal Jews up until Jesus came, I'm not denying that.
But future events about Israel I believe are not about the Jewish people or the land of Israel but to the Christians all over the world.
1 Cor 10:16-17 " The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread."
Are there two pieces of bread or just one?
We don't have one set of bread for the Jews and another set for the Gentiles.
We all eat of the same bread.
That bread is Christ.
Don't think that some promises are for the literal Jews and other promises are for the Christians.
We all eat the same bread.
I'm not sure why I added the next verse but I have it marked in my Bible.
1 Cor 10:18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the alter? "
This verse goes with those following it and explains that we should not be so concerned with the bread itself but what it symbolizes.
If the bread is said to be from the devil should we eat it?
But if the bread is said to represent the body of Christ, now do we eat it?
The bread itself was not the problem, it is what it was said to symbolize.
Gal 6:13-16 " For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. "
When I first joined the SDA church there were many who cared more about your appearance than did your walk with Christ.
You can't eat these foods, you can't wear jewelry, or you need to dress a certain way.
Not saying these things are bad but you are giving the wrong message, at least for those new to the church.
The message needs to be looking to Christ first and putting away your sinful habits.
Not so much about looking the part but being the part.
Israel of old is full of religious customs and ceremonies that no longer apply.
Our glory is through Christ not outward appearances.
Many Jews and many Christians still focus more on their appearance than they do their relationship.
There is only one way to heaven and that is through Christ.
Don't think you can earn your salvation.
Gal 3:6 " Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
How did Abraham become worthy?
Was it because of some lineage?
Gal 3:7 " Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham."
And now who do all these promises of old now belong to?
Do the promises belong to a certain nation or race of people ?
Gal 3:8 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed."
So who is blessed?
Is it the nation of Israel?
So why are we always supporting the Nation of Israel?
Why do so many speakers look to the Nation of Israel to fulfill prophecy?
Gal 3:9 "So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."
Again the promises do not belong to a nation but belong to those of faith.
Gal 3:10-14 "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
These verses are more about not getting caught up in the law but rather caught up into Christ.
But still the blessings are not for a literal lineage of people, the blessing comes through Christ by faith.
If the blessings come not to literal Israel where do you think all the other promises go?
Gal 3:15 "Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."
This verse says if very plain.
The promises all go through one seed and that one is Christ.
Why are people looking to the Nation of Israel?
Why would anyone want to say the 144,000 are made up of literal Jews?
You don't need to be a Jew to go in through one of the gates of the New Jerusalem in Heaven that all have one of the tribes of Israel makred on each gate.
Gal 3:26-29 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
This study is mostly to see why I believe that the 144,000 are a spiritual group of people not literal.
But it goes way beyond that, to understand the Bible and it's promises you don't need to be looking over at the Nation Of Israel.
If there is a warning against Israel in the Bible, don't look at the Jews, look at the Christians, they are the ones Christ are working with.
And when a Jew becomes a Christian that don't mean the prophecies somehow get transferred back to them.
The prophecies are the whole body of Christ, for those all around the world no matter what blood you have in you.
John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
Who are the sons of God?
Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
How many ways into heaven?
Rev 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."
Where is Jerusalem now?
Rev 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."
If a prophecy relates to Babylon, Egypt, Sodom, or Jerusalem where do you think we should look?
Should we look for a spiritual meaning?
Yes many cities did have local prophetic events but if the local event gets related to a last day event then what happens?
should we go back to the map or does the local event give some details on larger more spiritual event later?
Dan 7:26-27 "But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him."
First off this kingdom is for the saints, not for the Jews.
Second this kingdom is an everlasting kingdom which means this kingdom continues after the 1000 years.
Someone show me where it is that the temple will be rebuilt, we go back to sacrifices, and the Messiah will come and reign with the Jews again?
At least that is one version I've heard.
Rev 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
Where is Christ now?
Mark 16:19 "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."
John 8:32-36 "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."
John 8:23-24 " And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. "
John 8:37-59 " [37] I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. [38] I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. [39] They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. [40] But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. [41] Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. [42] Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. [43] Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. [44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. [45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. [46] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? [47] He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. [48] Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? [49] Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. [50] And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. [51] Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. [52] Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. [53] Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? [54] Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: [55] Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. [56] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. [57] Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? [58] Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. [59] Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. "
Phil 3:3-9 " For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: "
John 1:47-49 " Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. "
Gal 4:28-31 "Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free."
John 1:12-13 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
John 3:3-6 " Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "
Gal 4:4-7 " But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. "
Rom 8:7-9 " Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. "
Gal 5:24 " And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. "
John 4:21-24 " Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. "
Rom 9:3-8 " For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. "
Rom 2:28-29 " For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. "
Mat 23:37-38 " O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. "
Mat 27:51 " And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; "
Rev 14:1-4 " And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. "
Rev 17:4 " And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: "
Eph 5:25 " Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; "
Eph 5:32 " This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. "
Rev 14:4 " These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. "
Jer 6:2 " I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman. "
Gen 12:2-3 " And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. "
Gen 22:2 " And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. "
Gen 32:28 " And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. "
Ex 4:22 " And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: "
Jer 25:31 " A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD. "
Jer 51:1 " Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind; "
symbolic
Seven Churches
Jezebel
Balam
Sodom
Egypt
Babylon
Mat 2:15 " And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. "
Luke 3:38 " Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. "
1 Cor 15:45-47 " And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. "
Heb 2:10 " For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. "
2 Cor 5:17 " Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. "
Gen 3:16 " Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. "
Gen 12:7 " And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him. "